How Narcissistic Abuse Changed Me

How Narcissistic Abuse Changed Me with Special Guest Carol Lorraine

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Join me and special guest Carol Lorraine in a conversation about how much narcissistic abuse can affect your life, but you can still come out thriving!

The book Carol mentioned:

Getting the Love You Want


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After abuse we need SIMPLE. I created a planner for busy women just like you to navigate your days easier:

I am Christy Jade, adoring wife, adoptive mama and narcissistic abuse survivor. I now help other women who have gone through abuse (or are going through it) find confidence, power and peace.



Speaker 1: (00:02)
Hey, Queens, welcome to, but still, she thrives. Do you wanna stop getting caught up in that wicked web of a creepy crawling narcissist? Do you find yourself up late at night replaying the abuse you put up with, and wondering how you can heal now? Do you wake up hoping for healthy relationships and peace only to feel totally exhausted and mind effed? Girl, I see you. I’m Christy. I too had to disconnect from toxic people in my life, and I wished I could undo the damage. I felt ashamed, lonely, and kind of lost. But I’m a stubborn Italian and I refused to give up. I found ways to recalibrate my mind and body more quickly than I thought, and can now share them with you. In this podcast, you will find coping tools, healing methods, and confidence boosters so you can trust yourself and find peace and freedom. So, shields up ladies, let’s go protect our peace.

Speaker 2: (01:00)
And I have a special guest today. I’m so excited to have on. This is my friend, my personal friend, Carol Lorraine, and she is the owner of Sizzling Marketing Group. She is a marketing genius. She actually helps me with my marketing, and she has been a client of mine and we’re friends, so we have a lot of history together. Um, I’m so excited to have you on. Welcome.

Speaker 3: (01:25)
Thank you. I’m so excited to be on your podcast. I’m a fan, I’m a fan of her podcast. . I’ve, I keep learning through it as well, even though I’ve been studying this for a while. But I always learn something new. So I tell people that as well. Like, just listen, you’re, you’ll learn something new, a new perspective, something.

Speaker 2: (01:43)
Yes. Yes. And Carol, like she said, she has done some research and education herself on narcissistic abuse and had her own experience. So I guess we can start there. What has your experience been with narcissistic abuse up to this point in your life? ?

Speaker 3: (02:01)
Uh, I definitely have been in a romantic relationship with one. Didn’t really realize that until later when I started learning more about it. But that was, yeah, I’ve had some relationships where there were the narcissistic behaviors going on. I definitely understood back then it was like, this is not what I want. But I understood more later about avoiding attachments, narcissistic behaviors. There’s obviously a spectrum on it, so not everyone’s like horrible, but they do have tendencies. So,

Speaker 2: (02:39)
Yes. So what, what point or the culmination of things, what made you kind of want to dive deeper to get that deeper understanding? Similar to my situation where I just reached a point, um, did you have a specific point where that hit or that light bulb was like, I really wanna dive deeper and like really understand what’s going on with the whole narcissism thing, because it’s such a word that’s thrown around and not used correctly and all of that. So

Speaker 3: (03:07)
Yes. It was when, it was a few years ago, I think I caught it on YouTube or something. It was a clip of Oprah and Kate Hudson, and they were talking about relationships, talking about how we attract certain people in our lives, certain types of relationships. And they mentioned some book, and I don’t remember the name, but I’ll find it. And that way you can link it mm-hmm. . But it was, um, they were speaking such high praise about it. And Kate Hudson said, this book inspired me to break up with a relationship at that time. And she said, it’s because I realized why I attracted that man in my life. And I realized why I attracted the same man in my life in a different body. Mm-hmm. . And it was of unhealed issues she had going on unhealed wounds that she hadn’t faced yet.

Speaker 3: (03:56)
And it was like, oh my God. Right? Like, okay, there’s something I’m doing that is attracting something. Like I wanna learn what I’m doing. I wanna learn what these wounds are and how to fix them. And so it was doing that deep dive, learning more about attachments, learning more about like trauma wounds and all those things. And I was like, oh my gosh. And so then I realized, and I looked at, okay, what are there patterns in people I’ve dated? Like is there something I can find that has been a pattern? And some of them were different, but yeah, there was somes similarities and some of them. And I thought, okay, now I know why I attracted that. And I now at least the good thing is I can fix that.

Speaker 2: (04:34)
Yes. So for you, what was, what you first of all noticed as the pattern in your, well, let’s start with who you dated. Was there a certain pattern that really showed up? I know you mentioned kind of avoidant. Can you go deeper into that a little bit?

Speaker 3: (04:51)
And, you know, not everybody was avoidant. So, and I actually, I was not avoidant with everybody either. I was the ones avoidant with me. So, but I actually did have really secure relationships too. I, one of my really good friends is an ex-boyfriend of mine from college, and we talked about our relationship and I was like, we actually have a very good relationship. Yeah. The only reason was because I realized he was an alcoholic. Mm-hmm. , that was, I recognized earlier in my life that I, I didn’t realize until after I was dating them that they were alcoholics. They were all very funny. They were all, they made me laugh. Like I had a lot of fun with them. But after spending more time dating them, I started realizing, this isn’t healthy. This person’s actually an alcoholic, you know? Mm-hmm. And that mean this. But then I realized, why am I attracting alcoholic after alcoholic?

Speaker 3: (05:37)
You know, what is it about these people? You know, obviously they were all funny and charismatic and all those things. But then I realized, you know, they, they did have, and then, and then I started to pinpoint certain things about their backgrounds, their childhoods of what led them to utilize alcoholism to self-sooth. Yes. But one pattern I found was the alcoholism, um, the avoidant with some of them. See, he was not an avoidant, that particular boyfriend of mine, um, he was an alcoholic, but we had a very good relationship aside from that. Like, we really didn’t even fight, you know? I mean, even when I brought up a couple concerns, he like fixed it immediately. And I told him that like, you were actually a really good boyfriend, aside from the fact that I just didn’t wanna be with someone who I couldn’t go out to dinner with and you’d not get drunk. You know, like,

Speaker 2: (06:23)
Yeah. Right. It was just

Speaker 4: (06:24)

Speaker 3: (06:25)
That. And I was like, oh, you know, like, I don’t want that, you know, I just wanna be able to go to dinner and then we just have a nice dinner and come home. And it’s not like you’re slamming like shots, you know, after one, another party till like three in the AM on a Tuesday night, you know?

Speaker 2: (06:38)
Yes. And speaking of alcoholism, that is something that can be common for narcissists to B because, well, a, they have a lot of pain inside and a lot of them use that as an escaping mechanism. Mm-hmm. . And also, you know, like you said, it’s a way for them to, you know, do that self soothing in general. Mm-hmm. . And as far as your pattern that you saw in yourself, like you said, so some of it was avoidance. Was there anything else that popped up for you that you learned and, and kind of chipped away at so that you could heal?

Speaker 4: (07:15)
Yes. I recognized for me the, gosh, it depended cuz it was with different people. Mm-hmm. , like I, I was able to have secure relationships with some people and there was other people I was not. And so I think with the ones I was not able to have a more, just, more like steady relationship with. I ran away a lot. I did not handle, you know, I just, like, if I saw something that triggered me, I was out, you know? Mm-hmm. breaking up with them a lot later on, getting back with ’em, you know, I had like those rollercoaster relationships. Yes. Yes. Whereas the difference now is I wouldn’t do that again. So now, like since two years since my last breakup, and I’ve healed thanks to a lot of our work, I think we’re meeting like every week

Speaker 2: (08:07)
. Yes. But

Speaker 4: (08:09)
Thanks to that, now if I see an issue that I know will be problematic in terms of compatibility, I already know and I’m not going to even engage further anymore. And I’m totally at peace with the fact just knowing like, we’re not compatible enough, reas my old self would still continue and think, well, maybe I can work on that and maybe I can fix and, you know, maybe we can. And, and now I’m like, no, there’s certain things that I know are really crucial to a foundation of a healthy relationship. And if, and it needs to feel peaceful for me, there needs to be conflict resolution skills, there needs to be self-awareness. And I no longer wanna be somebody’s coach. I no longer want to do those things. Right. I, you know, would like to have someone who’s already done that work as well, because I can’t be in something now that doesn’t feel peaceful. Cuz now I know what that feels like and I can’t go back to the chaos in the rollercoaster anymore. But I was used to a rollercoaster life growing up, which is why the rollercoaster was okay for me. Like, I mean, I ran away a lot growing up, and so packing my and leaving was like, this is the norm.

Speaker 2: (09:22)
Just another day. just another day. Yes. And that’s a great point to bring up. Um, because yes, if we grow up in, you know, narcissistic environments or just any sort of abuse of, or even just being dismissed, and I’ve talked about this recently of some of my clients, even just being dismissed, not feeling like you’re important or heard. And that could be generational too with kids that is like, you know, yeah. Be seen and not heard. You know, I’m the parent and the, not like a mutual respect. Um, but that can, when you have some sort of environment that is some sort of trauma or up and down like that, and you and I have talked about this too, where you’re so, you’re just so comfortable with it that you, it’s like you don’t know any better. So a lot of us who have been in romantic situations, it, it does usually point to the fact that as children, we were in some sort of dynamic, whether it’s narcissistic or not, where we felt comfortable with the chaos or the up and down, almost like, it, it felt safe in a way for us that was like a comfort of, and that could be like, oh, they may, my parent is so up and down where it’s that over the top.

Speaker 2: (10:39)
I always say like, Eminem and Kim, right? It’s like mm-hmm. that up and down where the good is really, really good, almost like blissful mm-hmm. . And the, the lows are so low and you, you feel so bad, but, so then you just ache and seek that high again. And it’s like almost becomes an addiction to that big dopamine hit. Um, which, and that you and I also spoke about recently, um, getting into relationships that are healthy, such as me and my husband and whatever, where it’s like, oh, this is what it’s supposed to feel like. It’s not those crazy highs and big lows. Not like we don’t have great days or great dates and different things, but yeah. It’s a lot more even and not, oh my gosh, I’m on cloud a thousand and the world is perfect and then these deep lows

Speaker 4: (11:33)
And, and my prehealth cell would get boring. Yes. In healthier relationships. Like I said, I did have some fun secure relationships, so maybe it wasn’t all attributed to that, but I do remember with my ex-husband when we first started dating about a month and a half in, I was just like, this is too easy. Yes.

Speaker 2: (11:55)
I was just gonna say, it’s exactly what I said with my husband. I was like, I was like, I

Speaker 4: (11:59)
Think I’m gonna break up with him. I don’t know, something off about this. Like, I don’t know, I’m, and I remember like having to talk to son, be like, you actually, you actually prayed for somebody like this. Mm-hmm. , what are you gonna do? Do you really wanna go back to your like, toxic previous relationship? Which is kind of what I was considering. Yeah. Like going back to the like person beforehand. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (12:21)
Almost like there’s an excitement and uncertainty that we

Speaker 4: (12:25)

Speaker 2: (12:26)
Used to.

Speaker 4: (12:27)
Well, I got so used to, well, and also growing up, I growing up I would leave and then my parents like, you know, and they didn’t have to like beg me back. And, uh, I got used to that to me being like, I’m glad I had like, okay, I’m leaving, right? This is, I don’t like this. Um, but then I got used to someone constantly begging me back and so like in the previous relationship I was so used to leaving him, like doing whatever he needed to do to get me back. So like getting with my husband, uh, ex-husband, I was like, this is weird. There’s like, you know, I subconsciously, I was kind of like, where’s the drama? Where’s the, you know, like this.

Speaker 2: (13:06)

Speaker 4: (13:07)
You know what I mean? It’s almost

Speaker 2: (13:08)
The cat and mouse or the game of it. Yeah.

Speaker 4: (13:11)
Yeah. Like I don’t, I don’t even wanna call it excitement, but like, something just felt so different and I, I’m, you know, I ended up staying and not breaking up with him and doing all that thing, but we ended up still having like a, you know, we, we still had like a tornado hurricane relationship anyways, so he had, you know, unhealed things also from his past. And then we did not fight well, you know, like mm-hmm. , he, we did not fight well and you know, it was so that was like bad if we’d get an argument it was get like worse, you know? So. Right. Um, and I’m so glad that the boyfriend had, after him, he was like, so calm, like, so calm, so patient, you know, if we were arguing he was like, I was just like so impressed with like how calm he was. I was like, oh wow, . Um, that’s so different. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (14:03)
And it’s refreshing. I mean, after you get over the hill of it, like I did with my husband at first, I, I was literally just waiting for a shoe to drop. I’m like, okay, this first of all cannot be real. This is too easy. And then once I was like, I worked on myself a little to be like, you deserve easy peace. It’s okay. Like I just wasn’t used to it and kind of almost had to train myself to be okay with a healthy relationship.

Speaker 4: (14:28)

Speaker 2: (14:29)
Then it’s like, even if it doesn’t work out, if it’s someone that’s healthier and you know, like you and your ex may have not worked out, but you saw, look, there’s, this is what it should feel like. The calm part of it and the, you know, maybe I don’t know what, what worked and what didn’t in that relationship, but whatever worked, it’s realizing, oh, this is out there and I, I can get that and I deserve that behavior and that communication or whatever it is, it’s, it’s nice to, for me it was something I never really had until my husband. So having, it was this just light bulb of like, this exists. Like, once I got over the hump of like deciding, hey, I do want this and I’m okay and I deserve this. It was like relaxing into that. It was scary. But, so just, I don’t even wanna say happy cuz it’s a calmer feeling. Just this peace of like, I can have a life like this holy. You know? Yeah.

Speaker 4: (15:27)
Like, this exists and, you know, and I’ve met, I’ve dated, um, several men since my last relationship in the last two years. Some of them, you know, a couple months and then some of them just here and there because they don’t live here.

Speaker 2: (15:41)
Mm-hmm. .

Speaker 4: (15:42)
And luckily they’ve all been, you know, very, most of them have been like just really great solid men. And, and it’s really refreshing because the only unfortunate part was like, oh, they don’t live here. I’m not doing that again. You know, like, I’m not doing long distance again. Old Carol would’ve done that, not this one. I’m not committing to somebody that’s not in my vicinity. You know, there’s already enough things that contribute to obstacles and relationships. I’m not gonna have the long distance one be an extra one. I, I did a long distance before I got married the whole time. We were long distance and then it created, I shouldn’t say it created, but the fact that we didn’t live in the same place and have all that, when we got married and lived together, it was very hard to navigate. Yes. When I moved to Houston and we were like living together for the first time and in the same city and the same home for the first time, it was rocky. That first nine months. Really rocky.

Speaker 2: (16:38)
Wow. Yeah. I had a, a long distance relationship as well. Same as you. Um, I think the earlier me would have been just like so excited, like, oh, I have this guy who likes me and I like him. And almost like, I don’t say I was desperate, but a desperate energy toward the relationship because I was like, oh, this guy’s great, you know? And then I had to realize, yes, but it just started, it was going on too long to not be together and same as you. It just doesn’t work for me. It works for some people. Great. It just, it, it didn’t work for me. So it was like, you know, that’s okay. I see there, you know, he was a nice enough guy. I won’t say the level of my husband cuz like nobody is, not nobody, but I mean mm-hmm. it, I didn’t date many nice nicer guys anyway. And, um, it was just cool to see like, okay, well that can possibly happen. And then, you know, then I met my husband, which was just unreal and really like, I Okay, that’s like a whole other level and

Speaker 4: (17:44)
Yeah. Well, and, and even, so here’s the other reason I attracted certain dynamics because again, I didn’t really know peace yet. I barely reached that in 2022. Um, which I’m so glad I did. It was just life changing. The caliber of men that exist, like your husband, like some of my friend’s, husband’s, boyfriends. I truly didn’t believe in that. I didn’t believe in it. I didn’t think that existed. So I settled for what I thought was like, well this is, I mean, that’s the best it’s gonna get.

Speaker 2: (18:22)
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4: (18:23)
Like, I just really just thought, you know, we asked, we’re offload, but now when I really, and it’s part of it, that part of that’s my fault too. You have to believe in something to start seeing it, right? Yes. So once I started believing that and telling a different story that there are men, like the kind of me true like dream man I would want, that would be working for me, you know, a good fit for me. Mm-hmm. , I started seeing them like a lot more. Like I, I started meeting a lot of them. Unfortunately they don’t live here, but I’m like, well, at least it’s nice to see that there’s so many great men out there and too bad we don’t live in the same city, we’re too far from each other. But it was really refreshing. Um, and you know, so when they come in town, when I’m over there, we’ll see each other and it’s fun and it’s still nice to be in their presence, but yeah. And that, that was also cha like big

Speaker 2: (19:14)
For me. Yeah. And that’s a great takeaway for listeners who are post narcissistic abuse can, as we know, do a lot of damage to our self-esteem and all of that, but also our faith and our trust. And even I had someone say, do I even wanna trust, like they’re scared to even want to trust even open up vulnerable.

Speaker 4: (19:35)
Oh, I was terrified. So after the, the one I dated, I was 19 and, uh, we dated a few months, but he ended up being Yeah. At the end of the relationship. And that’s when you learn more about a person when they’re not getting their way right. Yeah. So at the end of the relationship when I left the relationship, the things he was doing, like threatening to kill himself, threatening to come to my home, you know, just harassing me to a certain extent. It, and I ended up, I remember doing something I regretted so bad doing. I remember paying a credit card for him because I kept, they kept calling him and I was like, why don’t you just pay it? You know? And I, yeah. And I remember my gut instinct said, don’t do that. But then I had to hold, I’d be such a bad girlfriend if I don’t pay this credit card for him, which mm-hmm.

Speaker 4: (20:15)
that I was mad at myself for years after that. I was so angry, so bitter with men after him, went through a depression after that. Like, I just completely changed who I was for a while. Had no faith in men. And I literally called him Satan. Like that was his name for everybody knew. Like, I did not call him his name. His name was Satan for like, that was, I was like, yeah, my ex-boyfriend, I call him Satan. Um, I don’t feel like that anymore. But for a while, like I, I had so much resentment towards all man because of him and, and just how much he switched on me, you know, after I think he thought like I had no other options or something. And I was la think again, fu ,

Speaker 2: (20:56)
You’re like back. Yeah. Sometimes it’s empowering. Uh, yes. My ex told me, he said, you will never, when he realized he used to do same stuff, right? It’s kind of like harassing and leaving stuff flowers and calls and tears. And when he finally realized like, oh, I think she’s really serious this time, cuz we had broken up a couple times. He looked at me dead in the eye and said, you are never going to find someone like me. And I looked at ’em back and I said, thank God for that. Right? Yeah. Um, but sometimes it’s almost empowering if you’re at that point to have them turn, turn into the real them in the moment where they’re not doing the like, oh, let me get her heartstrings or, you know, winner back over. And they have that moment where they can’t help themselves and they have to be that. And that’s

Speaker 4: (21:51)
Why I told them Satan, cuz I remember like the last, one of the last times I spoke to him in person, the last time I saw him in person, I had a, and I remember just telling, I was looking at him, I was so disgusted. I was like, who’s this evil creature that was repulsed? And I remember like, I don’t know what I told him, and he said he, I never will forget. He like kind of leaned back and he was just like, it was like such a fun, such an egotistical thing to say. But he said, yeah, sometimes I just like to lean back and look at all of the work I’ve done. like the, the, the, the Yeah. Messed up. I was like,

Speaker 2: (22:27)
Oh my

Speaker 4: (22:28)
Gosh, get me out of here. Right? Yeah. So like that kind of egotistical, narcissistic behavior absolutely. Repulses me. It disgusts me. Like complete, like any romantic feelings I had is like completely demolished at that point. I’m like, let’s, ew. What a monster.

Speaker 2: (22:46)
Yeah. Let, and let’s touch on that just for people who are listening and I, I’ve done some red flagged episodes and stuff, but for you, what, what are a few like deal breakers that seem narcissistic or abusive or just sign of a toxic person, right? We can label what we want, but at the end of the day, whatever toxic type of trait, what are a couple of those that stand out that you’re just like, nope,

Speaker 4: (23:11)
Gaslighting. I know not everybody knows what that means, but someone who tries to create a scenario in which they try to make you feel like you’re crazy or you don’t know what you’re talking about. Um, someone who you can’t even disagree with without their claiming you’re arguing, you know, or someone that is trying to make you think, you know, I I’m smart and educated enough to know what the going on. You know what I mean? Yes. Like, you ain’t convincing me I’m nothing. I don’t care who you are. Um, and, and I’m, I’m again ugly. I’ve been in healthy relationships where I can have, you know, these conversations right. With my boyfriend, my partner, and they’re not doing that to me and they have a very healthy response. And so like, not having that healthy response is like, ugh, cringe. Yes. Get me outta here.

Speaker 2: (23:53)
It’s such a turnoff now. Right? It is

Speaker 4: (23:55)
Disgusting. It is absolutely disgusting to me for somebody to try to, to do that to anybody really. Someone who’s not self-aware, can’t, can’t do it. You know, I, I wonder like, that’s why I ask, you know, when they about previous relationships and I wanna know how do they respond when I ask, well, what, you know, what do you think she’d say when people ask about you and her? Like what is she, what is her perception of the relationship? I love

Speaker 2: (24:17)

Speaker 4: (24:18)
Because, you know, if they’re only saying negative things, I mean, we all have neg I could say negative things about myself if I want to, but like, what would that person say were your issues. Mm-hmm. , what would the person say that made her feel bad or made her mad or triggered her? Like, what were your downfalls? You know? Yeah. Um, I love

Speaker 2: (24:36)
It. You got ’em up on that desk doing an interview, .

Speaker 4: (24:39)
Yeah. Well, and I learned that actually from, who was the girl that did singled out?

Speaker 2: (24:45)
Oh, Jenny McCarthy.

Speaker 4: (24:46)
I read a book of hers a long time ago, probably like 20 years ago. Yeah. And it was like a relationship book, but it was like a memoir, like kind of funny. But she talked about that and she said through her therapy she learned and that she, a guy friend was like complaining about his girlfriend and what she wasn’t doing anymore, like, you know mm-hmm. , everything was on her. And she’s like, okay, well, like cool. Now if I gave her the opportunity to vent about you, what would she say? You know, I love

Speaker 2: (25:10)

Speaker 4: (25:10)
And yeah. And I was like, that’s such a good way to reflect. And even on me, if I went to my ex-husband, my ex-partner, and I said, Hey, I want you to just have a vent session about me, what would you say? So even self-reflecting on that and thinking, what could they say? You know, what could I have done better? You know, what, what, what could they complain about me just to, to work on those things.

Speaker 2: (25:33)
Yeah. And it’s not comfortable. Like none of us wanna sit there and like think about all our faults, but I think for those of us who have been through the work, who are self-aware, we’re able to still do it anyway. And that is a difference. I mean, try to get a narcissist to, to talk about their faults. I mean Oh yeah. There’ll be a red flag right away. They’ll, they’ll stutter or make a joke or something. There’s no way they’re gonna really pull

Speaker 4: (25:59)
That out. I asked one actually last few months. Yeah. Um, I asked somebody and he, when I asked, well, what, what would, what does she say? You know, I know you’ve said a lot and what, what does she, what does she say is the reason? Yeah. And he completely like, immediately, like just, he was like, oh, and I, of course she said, you know, whatever her things and, and that’s it. He did not, he did not say what she says. So you didn’t answer the question. I didn’t say that, but I was like, that wasn’t enough information for me to be like, no self-awareness, no ability to share.

Speaker 2: (26:29)
Yeah. You know,

Speaker 4: (26:30)

Speaker 2: (26:31)
And a reminder, don’t be afraid to ask these hard questions. Yeah. I know like you and I are perhaps bolder than some people, but give yourself permission. You know, like even if you’re a more passive personality, you have to remember you are creating a new life for yourself after narcissistic abuse. And the only way you’re gonna do that is by creating boundaries and setting standards for yourself. And, and these things can be part of that. So asking those hard questions, think of it as you could be saving yourself from a lot, a long time of pain or trying to figure something out when by these questions you can get a big peak under the hood . Right.

Speaker 4: (27:11)
Well, you know what in,

Speaker 2: (27:12)
What’s in there?

Speaker 4: (27:14)
The difference too, when somebody has done work and their way they respond. So for example, my ex-boyfriend, uh, from college, I’ll just, I’ll call him D and uh, he said I could talk about him. We had, we, like I said, we didn’t have a bad relationship. We had a really good relationship and we laugh about it all the time. We were together, like, we dated like three to four months mm-hmm. , but we were together every day cuz we worked together. We were together every day Yeah. For like, you know, 12 to almost 24 hours, you know, during that time for the span of three to four months. So I was like, even though we only dated three to four months, like that’s a lot of time we spent together work, we got to know each other through work anyways. But when me and him talk about these conversations, and I’ll ask him that about his previous, you know, longer term relationships and his responses are, that’s a, that’s a good question. And you know, I’ve reflected on that and I, what I did wrong. Mm. He’s so comfortable. That’s great. Answering those questions. He’s already reflected on it. And if it is a question I’ve asked that he hasn’t considered, same thing, God, that’s a really good question. And then he’ll answer it like, he has no discomfort. I love that. Sharing all those things as opposed to a man who’s like, oh yeah. You know, just completely like, get me out.

Speaker 2: (28:26)
Well, of course she has her crazy narrative or her story, but

Speaker 4: (28:30)
Right, right, right, right. Yeah. It’s so, it’s, it’s very different from a person who truly has done work and they can take a question like that. And it’s not like triggering. It’s like they appreciate like this really cool dialogue and reflection going on, reflecting on things. They’re comfortable with it. And you know, usually people that have another work, they, they’re not comfortable with it, but they’re gonna escape that question fast.

Speaker 2: (28:54)
Yes. So, obviously we know this affects romantic relationships and for myself and my life, it has affected almost every other aspect of life. So, curious how this has affected maybe your friendships, if it’s huge impact on my friendships, um, and just what I tolerated growing up versus now what do I tolerate and, uh, work life even just in day-to-day. Um, touch on how it’s affected things outside of romance.

Speaker 4: (29:22)
I know back in college, I reached a point maybe somewhere midway in college. So leading up to that, of course you have your friends through elementary, middle school, high school. Unfortunately, you tolerate some things cuz you gotta see these people every day. Right. And sometimes it’s better to keep someone close and keep them as an enemy. mm-hmm. . Um, but I reached a point where I completely no longer had anybody close to me who I could not trust around the man I was dating, who I could not trust around my money, my purse, who I could not trust to not just say bad to me, to a a friend. I introduced them to like someone who’s trying to take my friends away or turn my friends against me, still my boyfriend. You know. And I had a lot of that for a long time. Not from a lot of friends, but mainly like one or a couple. Um, and I reached a piece even just from like relationship, like friendships I should say, um, for a long time. And I didn’t come across another woman like that until, um, I was like 29, 30, something like that. And I recognized it immediately.

Speaker 2: (30:28)
No, don’t, can’t excuse it. Some people excuse it like, oh well she’s insecure such a, I just don’t care and I don’t have time for that. Me neither. Like, we talk about it, Carol and I, we have phone conversations and she’s one of my most uplifting friends and we have that dynamic and it feels so good. I’ve said to her, like, I just, I love our friendship because it’s just like we’re each other’s cheerleaders and we wanna see each other rise. And, and that’s how it should be. And some people just excu, there’s a lot of jealous

Speaker 4: (30:56)

Speaker 2: (30:57)
Women who knock each other down out there. Mm-hmm. competitive and mm-hmm. . And it’s just like, I, I don’t get it. I just think it’s gross. So, anyway.

Speaker 4: (31:04)
Well, and I think also something is, um, something like you and I have in common and also my other really close friendships. Um, and it’s that even if something’s going wrong, you know, even if you’re struggling with something in your life, which I’ve, we’ve been friends long enough that you have, there are some things that you were struggling with and vice versa obviously is going through like, the most horrible breakup of my life. . Yeah. Um, but we never, and I knew, I never even had to worry about it. Like, felt jealous of one another, felt like I couldn’t applaud you for anything great going on. It just like, for me, it’s always inspiring to see great things happening for other people. Cause I’m like, that can happen for me. You know, like Right. I’m excited for you, especially considering the, you know, previous thing that’s happened in your life and all my other friends.

Speaker 4: (31:50)
But it’s also exciting cause it’s just like, oh, it’s like what the possibilities, right? Like that can happen for anybody. Yes. So, um, but yeah, there are those friends and I’m sure you’ve had ’em, that like, if things aren’t going well in their life, like they don’t want them going well in your life either. Oh yeah. And it’s like, oh, like, you know, you can’t even like, say anything and you can’t be yourself anymore around them cuz you’re like, okay. Like, I can tell they’re just, they don’t want, they don’t, they’re not happy to see things going well for me right now and that makes me uncomfortable and doesn’t make me feel safe and secure around them. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: (32:19)
. And, and if they’re triggered, you know, like that to me, you know, my, not my phrase I say all the time mm-hmm. , I overuse it and it might sound cold, but it’s really just like, no, it’s not mine to carry their triggers. And yes, I can have compassion, but if it’s a pattern of somebody who is going to be jealous or whatever, like that’s okay. But you can do that from a distance and you can go get help and therapy or whatever you gotta do to work through that. Because I don’t wanna end up being like a punching bag for someone else’s

Speaker 4: (32:48)

Speaker 2: (32:50)
Stuff. Like, I went and did the work and I got help for certain things that did trigger me. Right. Um, in my life. And I think it’s, it’s up to us, it’s up, uh, to us to make the decision that we wanna do better instead of sitting in those feelings of envy or, you know, com competitiveness. It’s like, well look deeper. Why is that mm-hmm. and, and work on it man, . Right.

Speaker 4: (33:16)
Exactly. I can’t a lot indulge.

Speaker 2: (33:18)

Speaker 4: (33:18)
Wanna do that. Living in that space, living in that energy. You know, I’ve learned, and I know you’ve learned too, is being very particular spec or picky aware of your audience of who you’re going to for advice. Because not everybody’s qualified to give the advice for what you’re looking for.

Speaker 2: (33:35)
Amen. And

Speaker 4: (33:36)
Or in or in the right energetic space to, to be able to give you like a positive, you steer you in the right direction. Cuz sometimes people are gonna give you advice from their own triggers. Mm. And it’s like, oh, you know, so I’ve learned that too, of like, okay, they’re not the one to go to to ask for advice about this. You know, I’m gonna go to the person that I know could give me really good advice on this. Yes. And then even and generally

Speaker 2: (34:00)
In a healthy mindset. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4: (34:02)
, you know, and, and I am so grateful and I know I’ve told you this and I’ve told some of my other really close friends, it’s just like, God, thank you. You are home to me. I can come to you and never fear you’re gonna be jealous or steer me in the wrong direction or not applaud, you know, things that are deserving. Um, or make me feel like I can’t trust somebody. You know, I have a good amount of friends that I can go to for that, that are like ho that feels like home. I feel safe, I feel secure to give them a call, to spend time with them in person. It feels safe and secure. And once I recognize I’m not feeling that with someone, I’m listening, I’m like, Hmm, listen to this, listen to this. But like, listen to what you’re feeling right now. Uh, there’s something not energetically, you know, I can see it. I can feel . I’m like, no, I can feel that. And energy is really strong. And so I’ve learned that, yeah. I’ve been right about things that I’ve sensed. I’ve, you know, and it’s come to fruition that certain energies, like they don’t want the best for me. So, um, now I’m trusting that and I’m leaning in more and just really appreciating that at least I have people I can trust. Like, thank God. Like, I just, it helps me not feel alone.

Speaker 2: (35:14)
Yes. And

Speaker 4: (35:14)
You in in that

Speaker 2: (35:16)
You are should thank yourself too. And I, I’ve done that with myself. Like, yes, I’m so blessed, but I also took a while to get here where, like you said, I trust myself, my intuition, I’m, I’ve created an environment of safe people around me and mm-hmm. , I love that you use the word safe. Often people think of safe as like, not in harm’s way physically or whatever. And I think it’s important to remember safety is like that feeling of home and comfort and almost predictability in a way, right? Because with narcissists you get that unpredictability. You don’t know what’s coming through the door, you know, or by the hour you just don’t know. It’s this unsettled, unsafe feeling. And I think it’s so important. I love that you said that surrounding ourselves with safe friends, it’s really important. And I think that’s a great word to remember for people listening.

Speaker 2: (36:07)
If you’re, you know, just starting your healing journey and you’re moving forward trying to recreate your life with healthy relationships all around, tap in with yourself and does this person feel safe? Mm-hmm. A a constant safe, right? Yeah. Not just up and down. Like one day you feel like, oh yeah, they love me. Oh my God, they’re protecting me. They must love me. And, and then the next day they’re not. Right? Mm-hmm. , it’s like consistent, safe behavior. So yes. Mm-hmm. . I love that. What do you recommend people do who are at the start of diving into and understanding navigating narcissism? Because a lot of people come in here, right? On my podcast, like, okay, I wanna learn more. Like, what, what do you recommend?

Speaker 4: (36:52)
Well, I’m assuming they’re, they’re looking into it because maybe a breakup, they’re reflecting, they’re healing, they’re wanting to heal something. They’re, maybe they’re recognizing there’s something they wanna change. Like you said, confidence. Yes. Because if someone doesn’t feel confident in their abilities to live without the job, to live without the man, the woman mm-hmm. , you know, the family member or whatever. If you don’t have that confidence, well then, yeah, you are scared to leave. Cuz you’re thinking, well, what am I going to do? Exactly. So if they’re at the very beginning, then work on your self-talk and work on your affirmations and work on building your self-confidence up study. Do what you need to do so you feel like, Hey, I’m valuable. I’m getting to the point where you’re so confident and it’s not cocky, it’s just confident. Oh, and those are self up. That’s

Speaker 2: (37:37)
Our society, man. Gosh. Mm-hmm. , you say one positive thing about yourself or you share too much, people view you as overconfident or cocky and it’s like, no, guess what I’ve learned. And that’s, I think a lot of those are unhealed people. Because I will tell you, when I really went through my healing and learned, no, I’m not saying I’m better than X, y, z this person, it’s, I am just as worthy as anybody else and I am as beautiful as anybody else. Right. And even to say that out loud, I’m like, oh, someone’s gonna cringe out there listening to me say I’m beautiful. Right. . But we all, I mean, we are all these things and so many of us, especially women, and I’m not gonna say it’s just women, but in general in our society, we have this dynamic of we are not really supposed to have pride and, and confidence in ourselves.

Speaker 2: (38:35)
And I know we’re working on it as a society, I see the empowerment and self-care, like we’re kind of getting there, but it’s, it’s still not where it should be. Um, and that’s something I work on with clients, right? When we start working together, it’s building that confidence by doing, we, we do like kind of an evaluation, um, of what’s working and what’s not. And digging deep. We don’t sit and wallow in all of that, but like, we start off there because we have to see, well, where are we starting from and where do we wanna get? And then working with those tools to help build the confidence, the affirmations releasing. And we’ve done energy work, Carol and I like with yin yoga and reiki and all sorts of stuff, releasing that negative energy and you create space for all the good stuff, you know?

Speaker 2: (39:21)
And it’s, it’s such an amazing journey. I mean, to put silver lining on a horrible situation, I’m, I’m not grateful for what I went through, but it totally created who I am. And without it, I wouldn’t, I don’t think I’d be thriving and able to help the women as quickly and accelerate as I can because of what I’ve gone through and how I’ve healed in my journey, you know? So mm-hmm. , and I know, you know, you’ve had a journey too, and you talk about thriving, you know, I love that word. Carol is man, the epitome of thriving. To watch a single mom with two amazing boys, kicking at your business. And oh, you’re just such an amazing human and I’m so glad we got connected to begin with, let’s say. I don’t know, it was like, at least it was like a decade ago, right? Um,

Speaker 4: (40:13)
It was a while back. Yeah. Yeah. What a blessing. Yeah. And I remember I used to watch your, your whiny Wednesdays and I had such a, I just loved you. I never would’ve thought that we’d like, somehow, I don’t even know how we came friends, but ,

Speaker 2: (40:25)
I remember, I was trying to think of that the other day. I was like, it was probably something makeup, we both did makeup videos on YouTube at the time too.

Speaker 4: (40:32)
Yeah. It’s so, and you’re like so funny and so bold and also so loving and caring and supportive and it’s, oh, thank God. You know, just, it’s so nice to have women like you that I’ve been able to meet and, and like, God, thank God I had you too after that breakup. Oh my God. Like, you know, I forget when I go back and, and remember mm-hmm. Like all the phone calls, the sessions we had, I mean, we were like meeting every week. Yeah. And I was like working on things every week. And that was the first time I’d ever faced all these dramas and wounds and stuff I needed to heal.

Speaker 2: (41:13)
And, and the key is though, you were ready. That was rush. You were ready though. And that’s, um, you know, if you, whoever’s listening out there, if you’re in the beginning of this journey, you have to say, am I ready to have peace? Am I ready to be truly happy? Because until you decide to be ready, it’s gonna be a way bearer struggle when you surrender and say, I’m gonna do whatever I have to do now because I just can’t live like this anymore. And I want peace and I want calm and I want these things. They’re talking about you. You have to make the decision to say, okay, it’s time, it’s go time. I said that to God. I remember having a prayer, I was like, God, I am ready. Like, bring it, please. You know? Mm-hmm. , you have to really just,

Speaker 4: (41:54)
Yeah. Well, and my whole life changed. My, my my routine changed. Yes. You know, for the first time I actually started prioritizing meditating and facing those things and like self-care and exercise and water and like the, you know, yoga every night. Like, just, just reflecting, like doing all those things that like I didn’t prioritize it before and I’ve always been really busy and now it’s a priority. Now someone’s like, oh, can you do a meeting at this time? I’m like, mm. I’m still running at that time. . Right. You know, like, no, I’m, I’m barely getting back from my workout at that time, you know? Yes. Now it’s like, I’m like, no, I’m not just saying like, oh you wanna do 7:00 AM No, because at 7:00 AM I’m working out, you know? Mm-hmm. . So

Speaker 2: (42:35)
Yeah. There’s no excuses. And that’s, yeah. Look, I can vouch, I could say I’m busy all I want, but that’s me. I can vouch Carol is a busy, busy woman, right? . And she creates the time and I’m all about creating the time. We waste a lot of time. And you can create that intentional time to make sure you’re putting yourself as a priority in your own life. I mean, it’s pretty simple. Mm-hmm. , but a lot of us don’t, don’t do it. Don’t worry.

Speaker 4: (43:01)
Yeah. I wasn’t, I wasn’t prioritizing those things. And once I started prioritizing them and I remember you telling me like, Hey, you need to spend a night or something where you’re not booking anything that day. No, but meditating and I spent the whole weekend meditating. I did a, a yoga sound bowl on like a Friday night, which was amazing. And then Saturday and Sunday I booked nothing but just meditating self-care. Like that’s it. It was like, I’m just gonna do this and I’m not gonna schedule anything. Cuz like you said, I always had some appointment in the back of my head. Yeah. Like, where’s this gonna end? You know, like,

Speaker 2: (43:34)
No, you have to give yourself,

Speaker 4: (43:36)
That’s, I have to give myself time. And it’s actually pretty exhausting doing that too. Like you, it’s like, it’s like recovering from like reflecting and like working on that stuff. It’s very draining. It’s emotionally draining and so it’s not easy to go through, especially when you have a full plate. But it’s doable, but so worth

Speaker 2: (43:54)
It. So rewarding.

Speaker 4: (43:55)
Right. So worth it. So rewarding. So glad I did it sucked. But yes.

Speaker 2: (44:01)
It’s so rewarding. You, you’re one, you’re like the perfect client because you, you listen, take the advice and even the hard stuff, like even spending that time and when you really wanna go be running around town and doing all the things, you took the time in the space. And so you, it’s great to watch you reap the rewards. You know, we could, we could talk forever and ever. I’m sure I’ll have Carol on again cuz I just enjoy you so much and you’re so wise and uplifting and just such a reminder of how you can go from surviving or figuring things out, navigating to thriving, you know, and it’s, it’s awesome to watch. So mm-hmm , where can we find you in your marketing? Geniusness? Is that a word? Um, on social media? Are you I think yes. Being on Instagram, so

Speaker 4: (44:53)
Of course Facebook, Instagram. I just re restructured my TikTok cuz I lost it for a little bit. So I have nothing on TikTok anymore, but I’m about to start it. So Carol Lorraine is, they can find me if you just put that there. That’s all my social media is. But yeah, my business account is sizzling marketing group on Instagram. Yes. My personal account, as you know, is the Caroline in the city, uh, which is linked. If you go to that Instagram account everywhere, you know, you’ll just see Carol Lorraine if you just like Google that, they’ll find me on LinkedIn and

Speaker 2: (45:22)
Yeah. And I can link it. Yeah, I’ll link it in the show notes as well. So you can find our lovely Carol if you need any marketing assistance. But also she’s just so fun to watch on like, on Instagram I joked saying, I think I see on there cuz like I stalk her on there. She has such fun reels and just, she’s so open and she’s just awesome to follow. So go follow her regardless. And if you want to work with me, do some coaching, dig deeper and want that accountability and support, um, I will link my website. It’s There’s a work with me section, but I’ll also link it. Everything’s always in the show notes. Um, but thank you so much for taking the time out today of your busy schedule and helping. I mean, these conversations are helpful, so thank you so much. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4: (46:12)
. Well, yeah, and if anybody does come from, from this podcast to my social media, leave me a comment and let me know you came from the, the podcast. That’d be helpful.

Speaker 2: (46:20)
Oh yeah, that’s,

Speaker 4: (46:21)
Yeah, I mean, it’s all, I love connecting and actually seeing the face or the people.

Speaker 2: (46:25)
Yes. I love that. Mm-hmm. . All right, well, we will be back at some point talking about something else because I just feel that in my soul. But, um, mm-hmm. , you all have a wonderful day and don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you get all the notifications and remember, you are awesome. You’re amazing, and you deserve the best. All right. Love you guys. Bye.

Speaker 5: (46:46)



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